Diceslinger Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 @Ultramarineand I played a game with the rules update recently. We we unsure how the new indirect fire rule target point roll was handled. We understand that you first make a strike point roll. If that roll is successful the rules say you make a Combat Roll target point (6) to see if you hit. While it says strike point roll SMs don't apply, are we understanding that correctly that there are never any modifiers to that combat roll, you are always trying to beat a 6? Also, would a combat roll of a 12 be a critical hit and add a D6 to the score? Does a critical fumble on that combat roll have any effect other than missing (like running out of ammo)? I was also a bit uncertain of the diagram on p.29 about the strike-point combat roll and cover. It seems like it is saying that even though indirect fire doesn't need line of sight, if a model is within 1" of blocking cover (E3 cover between the attacker and defender) they can't be targeted by indirect fire. The diagram shows the strike-point on the CAV D1 and that blast being on the unprotected side of CAV D2. The hill providing the cover is on the opposite side of the CAV from the blast. I feel like I'm missing something. We did enjoy the game, and it fired us up for another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave.C Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 If a model is in 1" of blocking cover, the rockets hit the cover instead of the model because they don't drop directly down. I know that's a point that CAVBoss had drilled into us previously, and I think that's still the explanation. I /think/ that the only things that modify the combat roll are crits, as you guessed, and salvo fire (so firing 4 rockets at a target could either roll 4 times looking for a 6, or once looking for a 3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Baron Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 I call this the terrain shadow. If you're within 1"of LoS blocking cover then you CANNOT be damaged by indirect fire whose LoS crosses that cover. Doesn't matter if you drift directly behind the defending model... it cannot be damaged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Baron Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 These SMs apply to the IDF combat roll. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Baron Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 10/16/2022 at 7:34 PM, Diceslinger said: Does a critical fumble on that combat roll have any effect other than missing (like running out of ammo)? Critical hit add a D6 to the combat roll, Critical fumble check for 'out of ammo'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceslinger Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 18 hours ago, The Red Baron said: Critical hit add a D6 to the combat roll, Critical fumble check for 'out of ammo'. Do critical hits or fumbles have any effect on the strike point roll then? Other than the defender gets to reposition the strike point? Are there two rolls for indirect fire that can result in out of ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceslinger Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 18 hours ago, The Red Baron said: These SMs apply to the IDF combat roll. Ah yes, on page 30, I missed that! Thanks! Good, it feels like stationary and salvo fire should affect that combat roll as well. Cover gives you a bonus twice then, once on the strike-point roll, and one on the combat roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVBOSS Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 On 10/16/2022 at 7:34 PM, Diceslinger said: @Ultramarineand I played a game with the rules update recently. We we unsure how the new indirect fire rule target point roll was handled. We understand that you first make a strike point roll. If that roll is successful the rules say you make a Combat Roll target point (6) to see if you hit. While it says strike point roll SMs don't apply, are we understanding that correctly that there are never any modifiers to that combat roll, you are always trying to beat a 6? Also, would a combat roll of a 12 be a critical hit and add a D6 to the score? Does a critical fumble on that combat roll have any effect other than missing (like running out of ammo)? I was also a bit uncertain of the diagram on p.29 about the strike-point combat roll and cover. It seems like it is saying that even though indirect fire doesn't need line of sight, if a model is within 1" of blocking cover (E3 cover between the attacker and defender) they can't be targeted by indirect fire. The diagram shows the strike-point on the CAV D1 and that blast being on the unprotected side of CAV D2. The hill providing the cover is on the opposite side of the CAV from the blast. I feel like I'm missing something. We did enjoy the game, and it fired us up for another! The thing to remember is indirect fire is at a spot on the board, not the model, though many times a model is standing on that "spot." So, modifiers that affect getting the rockets there apply to the strike point roll while those that would help/hurt hitting any models there apply to the combat roll. Your base strike point is based on range, so (9) for short, (10) for medium, (11) for long, and (12) for extreme. Modifiers that help that roll include targeting computer, wizzo, fcs, etc. any that help gets the rockets there. If a model is in the final AoE of the attack, then the base to hit number for the combat roll is ALWAYS (6). This number is modified for cover, stationary, double time and salvo for the most part. A critical success on the strike roll has no effect, a critical fumble requires an ammo check and a special drift roll. A critical success on the combat roll adds 1d6, while a critical fumble is simply a miss. A model adjacent (less than 1") to blocking cover is immune to indirect fire but also cannot shoot (through the cover anyways). Even a strike point AoE that catches the model still cannot damage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVBOSS Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Diceslinger said: Do critical hits or fumbles have any effect on the strike point roll then? Other than the defender gets to reposition the strike point? Are there two rolls for indirect fire that can result in out of ammo? A critical success on the strike roll has no effect, a critical fumble requires an ammo check and a special drift roll. A critical success on the combat roll adds 1d6, while a critical fumble is simply a miss. A strike point or combat roll cannot be made if the number required for success is 13+. You cannot count/hope on a critical success or the blaster SA to get the required number, so while a critical success on the strike point roll should count as an extra d6 it is unnecessary as the 12 gets you on target regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVBOSS Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 20 hours ago, The Red Baron said: Critical hit add a D6 to the combat roll, Critical fumble check for 'out of ammo'. The out of ammo critical fumble is applied to the strike point roll only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVBOSS Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Diceslinger said: Ah yes, on page 30, I missed that! Thanks! Good, it feels like stationary and salvo fire should affect that combat roll as well. Cover gives you a bonus twice then, once on the strike-point roll, and one on the combat roll. Stationary/double-time, and salvo fire do affect the indirect fire combat roll target point (-2/+2/+ each additional weapon accordingly). Cover only applies to the combat roll, never the strike point (other than blocking cover preventing any damage to the targeted model). light cover adds a +1 and heavy cover a +2 to the indirect fire combat roll respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceslinger Posted October 19, 2022 Author Share Posted October 19, 2022 Thanks @CAVBOSS for all of that clarification. I'll annotate my rules 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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